National Year of Reading – Learning with Parents

For the National Year of Reading, we are sharing a series of short conversations with people who are involved in promoting reading with young people. This could be a programme, resources or a literary event, and we’re giving them the opportunity to share what they do and how people can get involved.

In this episode we are joined by Tom Harbour the CEO of Learning with Parents.

Learning with Parents is a charity whose vision is that every child is supported at home to fulfil their potential.  Working with schools, they support  families to have positive learning interactions together. Using a digital platform they motivate and empower families to enjoy learning together at home using child-led videos and hands-on family activities which replace traditional homework. For reading, they offer a digital reading log that replaces traditional paper version and allows families to upload audio clips as well as easily record their child’s reading.

They are also focused on learning what works in supporting parental engagement and are working with researchers at UCL to test what works in supporting reading for pleasure at home. They also  lead the Fair Education Alliance’s work on parental engagement and their forum which brings together organisations to network and share best practice around parental engagement.

Send us a message

Katy
0:11

Hi,

I'm

Katy

Ali
0:13

and

I'm

Ali

and

welcome

to

Masty

Book

Talk.

This

episode

is

one

of

a

series

we

are

doing

about

book-related

charities

and

what

they're

doing

in

the

national

year

of

reading.

Katy
0:23

And

in

this

episode,

we're

pleased

to

welcome

Tom

Harbour,

who's

the

CEO

of

Learning

with

Parents.

So

we're

very

happy

to

have

with

us

today

Tom

Harbour,

who

is

the

CEO

of

Learning

with

Parents.

And

we're

just

going

to

start

by

asking

what

do

Learning

with

Parents

do?

Tell

us

about

it.

Tom
0:44

Thanks,

Katy.

Thanks,

Ali.

It's

great

to

be

here.

So,

yes,

my

name's

Tom

Harbour,

CEO

of

Learning

with

Parents.

And

we

are

an

education

charity

that

aims

to

support

all

families

to

build

habits

of

talk,

play,

and

exploration.

We

do

this

by

partnering

with

schools

and

by

sharing

our

insights

across

the

sector.

Katy
1:07

And

how

do

parents

connect

with

the

schools?

How

does

it

work?

Tom
1:11

I

guess

we

know

that

every

parent

loves

their

child,

every

parent

wants

the

best

for

their

child,

but

also

that

some

parents

face

bigger

barriers

converting

their

good

intentions

into

the

sort

of

daily

habits

and

routines

in

how

they

interact

at

home.

And

so

we

work

through

schools

to

drive

that

or

support

them

to

drive

that

inclusive

parental

engagement

so

that

parents

are

given

everything

they

need

to

build

those

habits

of

a

really

rich

home

learning

environment

alongside

the

child's

schooling.

Ali
1:47

And

does

that

start

in

nursery

then

from

three

plus

up?

Tom
1:51

Yes.

So

our

starting

point

was

working

purely

with

primary

schools.

And

then

we

realized

that

there

were

some

families

who,

despite

the

school's

best

efforts,

were

literally

never

engaging,

never

coming

to

our

platform

to

look

at

the

resources

or

anything.

And

so

we

knew

we

had

to

go

earlier

in

that

parent's

journey

to

try

and

reach

those

families.

And

we

often

have

those

families

whose

eldest

child

is

just

starting

school

in

mind.

Because

at

that

point,

as

a

parent,

you

have

no

idea

what

it

means

to

be

a

parent

of

a

school-aged

child.

So

if

you're

ever

going

to

be

influenzable,

that

is

the

moment

where

you're

most

likely

to

be

influenza.

And

so

we

designed

off

the

back

of

a

great

project

called

Mask

Club.

We

designed

a

program

called

Ready

Teddy.

And

essentially

the

essence

of

that

is

that

parents

and

children,

before

their

child

start

school,

receive

a

physical

teddy

bear

from

school.

And

they

have

between,

say,

June

and

September

to

get

Teddy

ready

to

start

school.

So

Teddy

has

to

have

been

for

a

walk,

Teddy

has

to

have

put

his

shoes

on,

Teddy

has

to

have

brushed

his

teeth,

Teddy

has

to

have

read

a

book,

Teddy

has

a

bunch

of

experiences

for

the

parent

and

child

to

give

it,

all

easing

that

child

into

that

school

transition.

Ali
3:14

So

that

sort

of

school

readiness

piece

that

there's

been

a

lot

of

conversations

about,

haven't

there,

about

that

not

currently

happening

as

well

as

it

could

do.

Tom
3:22

Yeah,

absolutely.

And

it's

very

topical

in

that.

And

I

think

what

we've

seen

from

ReadyTeddy,

firstly,

is

that

parents

feel

more

comfortable

about

what

school

readiness

is

and

what

is

expected

of

their

child

when

they

start

school.

Secondly,

that

children

settle

faster

when

they're

then

in

the

classroom.

But

I

think

the

biggest

benefits

so

far

have

been

seen

on

the

teacher

side.

Typically,

if

you're

a

nursery

or

reception

teacher

on

1st

of

September,

you'd

have

a

list

of

names

and

you

wouldn't

really

necessarily

know

anything

about

those

children.

But

through

Ready

Teddy,

the

teachers

are

able

to

see

all

of

the

feedback

from

the

activities

that

the

families

have

played

because

all

of

our

stuff

uses

tech

to

allow

those

insights

into

what's

happening

at

home.

So

the

teachers

have

reported,

they

get

to

understand

children's

interests

and

hobbies.

They

also

understand

children's

fears

and

parents'

fears

about

starting

school.

But

then

the

thing

that's

most

important

for

us

probably

is

that

teachers

get

to

see

here

are

the

X

number

of

families

who

have

had

a

teddy

bear,

have

had

all

the

support,

and

have

done

absolutely

nothing

with

it.

And

so

then

those

are

the

families

who

on

1st

of

September,

we

would

encourage

them

to

go

and

learn

those

parents'

first

names

and

start

building

those

relationships

because

we

don't

know

why,

but

for

one

reason

or

another,

that

love

for

their

child

hasn't

been

converted

into

activities

with

Teddy.

And

can

the

teachers

approach

that

with

curiosity

and

start

trying

to

build

those

relationships

first

and

foremost?

Katy
4:51

Yeah.

So

in

just

practical

terms,

is

it

an

app

that

the

parents

get

and

that's

where

the

resources

are

as

well?

Or

how

does

that

work?

Tom
4:59

Yeah.

So

I

guess

taking

a

step

back,

parental

engagement

and

driving

parental

engagement

is

really

hard.

And

that

was

our

starting

point

10

years

ago,

saying

we

don't

know

how

to

do

this,

and

we

don't

really

think

anyone

knows

how

to

do

this

perfectly.

And

so

throughout

everything

we

do

as

a

charity,

it's

test

and

learn.

We're

not

a

charity

that'll

ever

tell

you,

yes,

we've

got

this

perfect

program

and

we

just

need

to

roll

this

out.

Actually,

we

think

printing

gauge

is

a

bit

too

hard

for

that.

We

have

tools

and

programs

that

allow

us

to

gain

huge

insights

into

those

interactions

that

are

happening

at

home

behind

closed

doors,

things

that

previously

have

been

really

hard

to

for

schools

to

see

anything

about.

And

then

from

that

data,

be

able

to

test

and

learn

and

try

different

things

out

as

a

school,

try

different

things

out

for

us

as

a

charity,

et

cetera.

And

last

year

we

had,

I

think,

over

one

and

a

half

million

interactions

that

parents

and

children

did

together

that

then

came

and

were

recorded

through

our

platform.

So

it's

a

huge

bank

of

potential

learning

from

that.

So,

yes,

from

a

parent

side,

they

receive

in

Ready

Teddy,

they

receive

their

physical

Teddy

bear.

And

then

they

have

a

sent

text

message

or

an

email

with

a

link

to

a

very

short

video,

always

of

children

of

the

same

age,

so

two,

four-year-olds

talking

about

taking

Teddy

to

the

park

or

whatever

it

might

be,

and

then

they

have

an

activity

to

click

below

it,

which

gives

them

a

little

bit

of

an

idea,

a

bit

of

a

structure

of

what

they

might

do

with

their

own

child.

We've

worked

very

hard

to

make

that

as

easy

as

paper,

is

the

sort

of

motto

we

go

for.

And

so

there

are

no

usernames

and

passwords.

There's

no

those

barriers

for

parents

are

reduced

as

much

as

possible

in

it

being

a

tech

platform.

Katy
6:46

Okay.

And

in

terms

of

because

obviously

we're

talking

about

the

National

Year

of

Reading,

how

does

it

work

about

reading

and

supporting

parents'

engagement

in

their

children's

reading?

What's

some

examples

of

how

you

use

it

for

that?

Tom
6:58

Yeah,

so

Red

Teddy's

a

sort

of

first

program

that

you

would

meet

as

a

parent

chronologically

through

us,

but

then

the

next

one

and

our

biggest

program

across

around

270

schools

is

our

reading

program.

And

I

always

think

of

it

as

okay,

now

start

reading

with

Teddy

or

teaching

Teddy

to

read

is

the

ideal

transition.

And

our

digital

reading

log,

as

it

started

out,

was

looking

to

replace

the

paper

reading

records

that

will

send

home

with

something

that

was

more

engaging,

more

useful,

started

as

a

foundation

of

building

those

strong

school

parent

relationships.

What

we

know,

I

think

we're

about

four

years

into

the

digital

reading

log

now.

We

know

that

it

saves

teachers

a

lot

of

time

and

allows

them

to

be

focusing

on

supporting

reading

in

class

or

supporting

those

relationships

with

parents

more

than

the

admin

of

the

paper.

We

know

it

helps

teachers

to

understand

the

reading

that's

going

on

at

home.

Instead

of

just

writing

a

comment

in

a

book,

parents

are

able

to

leave

photos,

written

comments,

but

also

audio

clips.

And

we've

had

a

lot

of

lovely

examples

from

teachers

telling

us

it's

something

like

five

or

six

times

we've

been

told

about

teachers

who

have

children

in

their

class

who

are

selectively

mute

and

they

haven't

heard

those

children's

voices,

but

then

they

read

at

home

with

mum,

and

mum

sticks

with

a

little

audio

clip

on,

and

suddenly

they

can

hear

that

child

flourishing

in

their

reading

at

home

in

their

safety

of

that

home

environment.

We

choose

audio

clips

over

video

because

it's

a

lot

less

presentational.

You

just

stick

the

phone.

I've

done

it

with

my

own

child,

you

just

stick

the

phone

on

the

table

and

they

carry

on

reading,

and

it

doesn't

get

in

the

way

that

videoing

does.

And

the

true

magic

of

the

audio

clips

is

you

start

to

build

an

audio

record

of

your

child's

reading

and

their

development.

And

so

if

you

imagine

a

reception

child

just

starting

out,

sounding

out

their

act

and

all

the

pain

that

comes

with

that,

the

parents

might

collect

that

as

a

clip.

And

then

six

months

later,

they're

having

other

clips

where

they're

actually

sounding

a

few

of

those

words

together

and

it's

starting

to

flow.

And

we

encourage

schools

to

use

their

parents'

evenings

to

go

back

and

play

the

early

clips

to

the

parents

and

play

the

recent

ones

and

say,

listen

to

that

progress

your

child

has

made.

That

progress

is

because

of

all

of

the

conversations

they've

had

with

you,

all

of

the

language

they've

heard

around

the

home,

all

of

the

games

that

you've

played

that

has

led

into

that

amazing

progress.

And

just

imagine

where

it

might

get

to

if

every

bedtime

you

were

reading

a

story

together

or

whatever

else

it

might

be

for

a

particular

family.

And

one

of

the

things

I

think

that

does

is

start

with

a

celebration

of

everything

that

parents

are

bringing

and

doing,

and

we

call

it

asset-based

parental

engagement.

And

that

for

me

is

a

really

nice

example

of

it,

where

you

can

say,

listen

to

this

progress

your

child

is

making

because

of

all

the

stuff

that

you're

doing

already

at

home.

Now

let's

think

together

where

we

could

take

them

next.

Ali
10:13

And

um

it's

interesting,

isn't

it?

Because

parents,

there's

a

lot

going

on

when

you're

parenting,

trying

to

work,

and

parent.

How

do

people

feel

is

the

response

you

get

that

it's

a

positive

experience

using

this

rather

than

feeling

like

big

brothers

checking

up

on

me?

Tom
10:31

Yeah,

it's

such

an

interesting

one

for

us.

I

think

we

started

off

in

a

slightly

easy

place

because

we're

replacing

the

paper.

And

in

some

ways,

if

you're

replacing

something,

it's

not

necessarily

that

great

with

something

that's

a

bit

better,

then

you're

making

a

positive

shift.

And

we

hear

that

from

parents

all

the

time.

We

had

one,

I

think

it

was

just

yesterday,

where

she

was

reporting

how

her

experience

of

reading

with

her

children,

with

her

two

eldest

children

and

then

with

her

youngest,

where

now

they

were

using

learning

with

parents

rather

than

the

paper

record

and

how

much

better

a

habit

they'd

got

into

and

more

of

a

celebration

of

the

reading

it

was

that

was

going

on

at

home

rather

than

the

sort

of

chore

of

filling

it

in

every

last

day.

But

I

think

our

aspirations

for

the

reading

log

are

much,

much

greater

than

that.

And

we've

started

with

this

sort

of

replacement

of

paper

and

making

it

work

really

well

with

schools.

And

we

know

schools

love

it

and

it's

serving

their

purposes,

but

we

really

want

to

help

parents

with

how

do

they

develop

that

love

of

reading?

How

do

they

have

a

rich

reading

diet

with

their

child

at

home?

How

are

they

exploring

books

in

a

range

of

different

ways

and

giving

them

ideas?

And

that's

very

core

to

all

of

our

programs,

is

giving

parents

these

ideas

of

activities

that

they

can

try

out

with

their

child,

some

of

which

their

child

will

just

cotton

onto

and

love

and

do

day

in,

day

out,

and

others

will

drift

away

and

get

lost.

And

that's

absolutely

Katy
11:54

that's

what

I

was

going

to

ask

you.

Was

it

does

it

go

beyond

the

phonics

and

the

reading

books

and

into

reading

for

pleasure

and

that

wider

encouragement

of

going

and

getting

books

from

the

library

or

reading

those

books

that

are

just

there

entirely

for

enjoyment?

Tom
12:08

Yeah.

So

for

obviously

it's

the

National

Year

of

Reading

now,

and

for

the

National

Year

of

Reading,

we

are

launching

a

partnership

with

UCL.

And

this

comes

out

of

a

lady

called

Professor

Rachel

Levy,

who

did

some

research

in

Liverpool

with

families

who

were

in

more

affluent

and

less

affluent

homes

in

the

region.

And

she

looked

at

what

was

driving

those

parents

to

read

in

the

evenings

or

whenever

with

their

children.

And

what

she

found

was

in

the

more

affluent

homes,

it

was

more

likely

to

be

this

sort

of

sense

of

obligation

and

a

feeling

that

reading

to

their

child

was

something

they

ought

to

do,

something

perhaps

their

peers

were

doing,

and

that

was

one

of

their

main

driving

motivations.

In

the

less

affluent

homes

where

that

she

went

into,

she

often

found

it

was

around

their

child's

enjoyment.

So

when

their

child

was

enjoying

that

reading

interaction,

then

they

would

keep

doing

it.

And

that

was

the

main

thing

that

was

driving

the

habit

in

those

households

more.

And

so

through

that,

she

became

really

focused

on

that

reading

for

pleasure

as

a

just

not

just

a

nice

to

have

because

of

all

the

benefits

of

reading

for

pleasure,

but

also

it's

fundamental

to

building

that

habit

in

the

communities

that

we're

most

keen

to

build

that

habit

in.

And

so

we

have

partnered

with

UCL.

As

I

said,

it

started

in

January,

and

the

focus

of

that

partnership

is

looking

at

how

can

the

reading

log

support

reading

for

pleasure?

And

there

are

three

strands

to

it.

The

first

one

is

we

have

40,000

families

currently

using

this

reading

log.

We

have

millions

of

feedbacks.

What

can

we

actually

learn

already

from

our

data

about

what

is

driving

that

joy?

When

a

parent's

getting

really

positive

comments,

what

sort

of

books

do

they

like,

what

time

of

day

is

best,

et

cetera,

et

cetera.

There's

lots

of

that

we

could

potentially

already

learn.

The

second

strand

of

it

is

how

could

we

learn

more

about

reading

for

pleasure?

And

so

actually

a

little

survey

question

or

thumbs

up

or

thumbs

down

or

some

specific

targeted

bits

that

we

could

add

that

meant

in

the

next

two

million

bits

of

feedback

that

we

get

and

so

on,

there

might

be

richer

data

around

Reading

for

Pleasure

in

there

to

help

inform

the

sector.

And

then

the

third

strand

is

and

how

could

we

improve

our

log

so

that

it

is

most

effectively

driving

that

reading

for

pleasure?

What

are

the

activities

that

we

could

push

parents

towards?

What

are

the

nudges,

the

changes

that

we

could

make

to

feel

like

we

were

having

a

bigger

impact

on

that

reading

for

pleasure

at

home?

Katy
14:46

Nice.

And

then

currently,

like

what

just

a

small

example

of

what

kind

of

activity

do

you

encourage

at

the

moment,

or

do

you

suggest

just

to

get

a

bit

of

a

sort

of

feel

for

it?

Tom
14:56

So

I

guess

I

will

maybe

first

answer

that

question

in

terms

of

the

reading

log

and

then

in

terms

of

our

other

programs

where

most

of

this

currently

happens.

So

in

terms

of

the

reading

log,

we

keep

it

quite

simple

because

it's

replacing

that

paper

diary

as

a

starting

point.

But

when

we

were

researching

it,

we

went

and

spoke

to

a

group

of

refugee

and

asylum

seekers

in

Coventry.

And

we

said

to

them,

what

would

you?

We

asked

them,

I

think,

a

couple

of

questions

around

reading.

What

do

you

most

want

to

read

with

your

child?

And

what

do

you

end

up

reading

most

with

your

child?

And

in

terms

of

what

they

wanted

to

read,

they

said

they

wanted

to

read

Bible

stories,

they

wanted

to

read

stories

from

the

home

culture,

and

they

wanted

to

pass

on

spoken

word

stories

that

had

been

passed

down

to

them

to

be

passed

down

to

their

children.

And

then

in

terms

of

what

did

they

read,

it

was,

to

be

overly

blunt,

the

sort

of

bif

chip

and

kipper

type

books

that

school

was

sending

home.

And

the

reason

was

school

sends

them

home.

And

so

if

school

sends

them

home,

they

must

be

particularly

important.

So

we

will

prioritize

that

reading

because

that's

what's

likely

to

be

best

for

our

child's

learning.

And

as

we

got

the

feedback,

we

were

just

thinking

no

school

would

be

wanting

to

drive

that

outcome

in

the

reading

that's

happening

with

those

families.

No

school

would

be

wanting

to

quash

the

stories

from

the

home

culture,

the

spoken

word

stories,

et

cetera,

that

they're

wanting

to

do

naturally,

but

somehow

through

the

messaging

that

we're

putting

out

there,

that

is

not

seeming

valued

to

them.

And

so

it

was

really

core

for

us

that

we

said,

tell

us

about

what

you're

reading

and

through

that

process

validated

all

these

different

types

of

reading.

So

are

you

reading

a

phonics

book

that

your

child

has

been

sent

home?

Or

are

you

reading

a

book

that

you've

got

around

the

house

or

something

else?

Or

are

you

actually

outside

and

you've

just

spotted

some

signs

and

you've

read

some

things,

or

have

you

listened

to

something

together,

or

have

you

sung

a

story,

or

have

you

done

a

and

and

so

on

and

so

forth?

And

we've

got

10,000

examples

of

kids

reading

song

lyrics

to

with

their

parents

and

thousands

of

recipes

and

all

this

sort

of

stuff,

and

just

that

rich

wealth

of

reading

that's

going

on

and

being

validated,

being

celebrated,

and

being

reported

back

to

the

teachers

to

all

this

richness.

So

that's

the

sort

of

first

thing

within

the

reading

log.

The

main

bit

in

terms

of,

I

guess,

we

have

three

programs.

So

we

have

ReadyTeddy,

we

have

the

reading

log,

and

then

we

have

our

sort

of

topics

and

activities,

and

that

covers

maths,

English,

and

money

skills.

And

through

all

of

those,

that's

where

we're

really

suggesting

activities

that

families

can

do

together.

So

to

take

a

maths

example,

your

child

is

learning

about

quarters,

you

get

a

one-minute

video

explaining

you

what

explain

to

you

what

quarters

are,

and

then

you

can

get

your

four

dolls

out

and

you

get

a

pile

of

pasta

and

you

have

a

little

picnic

where

you

share

that

pasta

out

physically

and

your

exploring

quarters

that

are

hands-on

way.

And

we

have

that

across,

we

have

some

1500

of

these

topics

covering

reception

TSX,

maths,

English,

and

and

money

skills

as

well.

And

so

we

have

a

lot

of

really

rich

reading

activities

there

in

the

English.

One

of

the

things,

like

I

say,

we

don't

talk

about

our

programs

being

just

fixed

programs

that

are

perfect.

One

of

the

things

that

we're

going

to

look

to

evolve

is

how

does

that

reading

and

those

English

activities,

how

do

they

best

sit

together?

How

do

we

bring

some

of

that

those

lovely

activities

to

pull

a

cover

over

and

you're

in

a

den

and

get

a

torch

on

your

phone

and

read

a

book

together,

or

bring

that

book

to

life

the

next

day

when

you're

out

walking

and

you

can

pretend

to

do

this

and

that?

Like,

how

do

we

get

those

activities

not

just

to

be

where

they

currently

are,

which

is

like

English

homework

type

activities,

but

to

be

part

of

that

reading

habit?

And

that's

one

of

the

challenges

for

us

over

the

coming

months

and

yeah.

Ali
18:48

It

is

yeah,

it's

interesting,

isn't

it?

Because

in

order

to

read

your

maths

on

about

how

to

do

a

quarter,

you

have

to

be

able

to

read

the

quarter

and

as

well.

So

it's

linking

all

those

things

together.

When

you're

cutting

your

cake

into

four,

that's

a

quarter

and

it's

maths,

it's

also

there's

a

recipe

for

the

cake

or

whatever

it

is

that

goes

all

around

it.

That's

really

nice.

That's

a

kind

of

nice

max

mash

up

together.

Tom
19:10

Yeah,

and

that's

I

guess

why

when

we

talked

about

right

at

the

beginning,

when

I

said

what

learning

about

parents

exist

for,

we

don't

exist

to

support

reading,

we

don't

exist

to

support

maths,

we

exist

to

support

habits

of

talk,

play,

and

exploration.

And

those

are

the

bits

of

those

are

the

interactions

that

come

out

of

reading

and

come

out

of

those

maths

games,

etc.,

that

we

care

about.

So

actually,

we're

compared

to

some

of

the

other

people

on

your

podcasts

and

things,

we're

a

lot

less

precious

about

the

physical

book

or

the

reading

itself.

For

us,

it's

a

lot

more

around

that

conversation,

that

time

that

the

parent

and

his

child

are

spending

together,

the

fact

that

the

child

is

sitting

on

the

parent's

lap

for

a

bit,

like

all

of

that

feels

like

it

leads

to

these

positive

outcomes,

even

if

we're

not

totally

certain

exactly

which

ones

those

will

be.

Katy
19:57

Lovely.

And

in

terms

of

people,

joining

you

or

finding

out

about

your

services,

you're

really

talking

to

schools,

aren't

you?

As

so

they're

the

people

who

introduce

you

to

parents.

How

should

schools

find

you?

How

do

they

get

involved?

Are

there

any

particular

things

you

want

to

say

that

you're

doing

to

that

schools

could

get

involved

in?

Tom
20:17

Yeah,

of

course.

So

we

have,

as

I

say,

around

270

partner

schools.

Most

of

our

schools

come

to

us

either

through

word

of

mouth

or

through

hearing

us

on

things

like

this

and

being

interested.

So

we

have

a

website,

learningwithparents.com,

and

they

can

go

there

and

have

a

look.

Now

is

so

we're

currently

just

the

beginning

of

May.

We're

getting

towards

the

end

of

the

ready

teddy

period.

So

if

schools

are

interested

in

that

full

ready

teddy

experience,

then

that

would

be

relatively

soon.

But

the

reading

log

typically

starts

in

September

because

schools

are

replacing

those

paper

reading

records

with

it

as

available,

as

are

the

full

programs.

We

also

get

a

lot

of

parents

who

recommend

schools

to

pick

it

up.

And

so

quite

a

few

of

our

schools

come

through

that

sort

of

parents'

championing

it

to

their

class

teacher

or

to

their

school.

And

that

is

an

option

if

you're

a

parent

that's

listening,

that's

uh

otherwise

unable

to

access

it.

Katy
21:08

Okay.

Yeah,

Ali

and

I

were

not

great

fans

of

the

reading

log,

were

we?

Ali
21:12

We

were

also

terrible

reading

log

people.

Katy
21:15

We

yes

we

weren't

very

good.

Tom
21:17

And

this

is

part

of

the

point,

right?

You

didn't

religiously

fill

in

the

I

have

no

idea

what

you

did,

but

let's

assume

you

didn't

religiously

fill

in

your

reading

log.

Ali
21:24

No,

let's

assume

that,

Tom.

Tom
21:25

But

let's

assume

that

you

read

with

your

child

or

you

spoke

to

your

child.

Katy
21:29

We

did.

We

just

hated

doing

the

logs.

You

did

it.

Tom
21:31

And

so

that's

why

we

don't

really

care

about

the

recording

of

the

reading.

We

care

about

the

forming

of

those

habits.

And

the

more

we

can

do

to

shift

that,

the

better,

from

our

point

of

view.

Katy
21:43

Yeah,

no,

we

were

definitely

better

at

the

reading

than

filling

in

the

logs.

Ali
22:00

So

you're

talking

about

um

reading

is

not

just

around

the

book,

it's

about

that

whole

experience

of

being

with

your

child.

And

what

does

that

look

like

for

you?

What

does

that

mean?

Tom
22:09

Yeah,

absolutely.

So

we

have

a

we

have

this

concept

of

a

reading

diet,

and

there

are

four

strands

that

we're

exploring.

We

think

it

changes

over

the

ages,

but

roughly

if

you

think

about

it

in

four

strands.

One

is

around

reading

aloud,

and

that

might

be

the

child

reading,

that

might

be

the

parent

reading,

it

might

be

the

two

together.

Another

strand

is

around

listening

together,

audiobooks

in

cars

or

audiobooks,

wherever,

listening

to

stories

if

you

go

to

a

library

and

someone

else

is

reading,

but

that

joint

listening

and

then

talking

around

it,

reading

independently

from

one

another,

that

might

be

the

child

is

just

looking

at

pictures.

Whilst

we've

grown

up

is

reading

a

real

book.

National

Literature

Trust

have

this

lovely

concept,

or

at

least

were

the

ones

that

shared

with

me,

a

lovely

concept

of

snuggle

reads,

where

the

parent

has

a

book,

the

child

has

a

book,

they

pull

a

blanket

over

themselves

and

just

reading

together

whilst

having

a

snuggle

on

the

sofa.

And

then

a

fourth

strand

around

reading

in

the

real

world,

the

signs,

the

things

that

you're

wanting

to

do

that

reading

is

unlocking.

And

so

that's

our

sort

of

reading

diet

that

we

think

of.

And

we

would

love

to

expose

parents

and

children

to

as

many

of

parts

of

that

diet

as

is

possible

over

the

years.

Katy
23:25

Yeah,

it's

nice.

It's

a

nice

thinking

about

reading

in

in

all

of

those

different

contexts.

And

it's

that

reading

doesn't

have

to

just

be

sitting

there

quietly,

silently,

or

not

reading

a

book.

It

could

be

other

things.

And

presumably

that

includes

football

magazines

or

all

of

the

the

sort

of

that

whole

whatever

interests

you

recipes

you've

already

mentioned.

Tom
23:47

That

works

for

you.

And

we

have

a

saying

that

parents

aren't

teachers.

Teachers

are

expert

in

the

curriculum,

but

parents

are

expert

in

their

child.

And

so

whatever

the

parent

feels

is

best

for

that

child,

and

that

might

be

following

their

interests.

Also,

just

opening

up

and

giving

permission

for

reading

in

their

home

language,

it's

so

commonly

shared

but

rarely

celebrated

in

that

as

much

as

we

would

like.

So

things

like

that

where

the

parent

has

that

agency

to

tailor

it

for

their

child

who

they

know

and

love

better

than

anyone

else

in

the

world

does.

Katy
24:19

Lovely.

And

so

then

just

finally

about

the

National

Year

of

Reading.

What

are

your

hopes

for

the

National

Year

of

Reading?

Tom
24:25

I

think

if

we

could,

as

learning

with

parents,

give

the

National

Year

of

Reading

a

an

ambition,

it

would

be

every

bedtime,

a

bedtime

story.

And

I

think

that

because

bedtime

stories

are

have

such

a

potential

to

be

a

win-win.

They

are

that

special

time

with

the

parent

and

child

together.

They

are

happening

every

single

day.

And

so

if

you're

looking

to

build

reading

as

a

habit

every

day,

it's

nice

to

have

that

structure

around

it.

And

it's

slightly

less

chaotic

than

some

of

the

other

points

of

our

parenting

lives.

But

also

reading

to

with

a

child

slows,

I'm

not

gonna

go

into

the

biology

of

it

or

that

I

know

the

biology

of

it,

but

slows

it

down.

You're

not

having

that

screen

that's

energizing

you

and

going

to

make

bedtime

harder,

it

can

make

that

bedtime

process

easier,

and

that

itself

is

a

win

for

the

parent.

And

so

if

we

can

support

that

every

bedtime

to

be

a

bedtime

story,

then

I

feel

like

that

would

be

a

huge

shift

in

the

reality

of

what's

happening

in

many

homes

up

and

down

the

country

and

in

the

outcomes

for

the

young

people

that

we

all

care

so

much

about.

Katy
25:39

Yeah.

I

would

say,

having

now

sprouted

two

fully

fledged

adults,

that

some

of

my

happiest

memories

are

definitely

reading

with

them

when

they

were

little.

And

not

so

little,

because

I

persevered

longer

than

perhaps

they

might

have

liked.

But

yeah,

but

definitely

those

happiest

moments

and

those

nicest

moments

and

amongst

the

chaos,

you

definitely

get

in

that

those

sitting

down

and

reading

at

the

end

of

the

day.

So

brilliant.

Thank

you.

Cool,

thank

you

very

much.

Ali
26:06

Thanks,

Tom.

Tom
26:06

Thanks

so

much.

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