In part 5 we continue looking at what works to support reading for pleasure, focusing more this time on opportunities for authors to engage with readers and the importance of wider family and community involvement and spaces to discover and talk about books.
For this series we interviewed the following people (not all feature in every episode):
Dapo Adeola – Author and the illustrator of many books including Look Up!, Clean Up!and My Dad is a Grizzly Bear.
Sita Brahmachari – Author of many books including Artichoke Hearts, When Shadows Falland Phoenix Brothers
Dr Darren Chetty – Lecturer at UCL Institute of Education and author, with Professor Karen Sands O’Connor, of Beyond the Secret Garden
Professor Teresa Cremin – Professor of Education and Co-Director of the Literacy and Social Justice Centre at The Open University
Charlotte Hacking – Teacher Engagement Lead at the Helen Hamlyn Centre for Pedagogy and Research and Curriculum Lead at Herne Hill School
Jenny Hawke – Children’s Librarian and Chair of the Youth Library Group
Tom Palmer – Author of many books including Angel of Grasmere, Resist and War Dog
Glynn Palmer–Bell – Assistant Director of English at Castle View Enterprise Academy, Sunderland
Louie Stowell – Author of many books including the Loki series, Otherland and the Dragon in the Library
Sabrina Sulliman – English teacher at Southfields Academy, South West London
At the end of the series we will invite comments and ideas from listeners so look out for how you can contribute to the discussion.
Many thanks to everyone we interviewed and to our Co Producer Belinda Naylor.
Katy
0:11
Hi,
I'm
Katy
Ali
0:12
Katy
0:12
Katy
0:12
and
I'm
Ali,
and
this
is
Mostly
Book
Talk.
Welcome
to
part
five
of
our
series
about
the
reading
crisis:
why
children
aren't
reading
and
what
we
can
do
about
it.
Ali
0:20
In
this
part,
we
continue
looking
at
what
works
to
support
Reading
for
Pleasure,
focusing
more
this
time
on
opportunities
for
authors
to
engage
with
readers
and
the
importance
of
wider
family
and
community
involvement
and
spaces
to
discover
and
talk
about
book s.
Katy
0:34
We
start
with
Illustrator
Dappa
Adiola,
who
highlights
the
importance
of
author
visits
in
introducing
children
to
new
books
and
encouraging
them
to
read,
and
also
the
importance
of
libraries
giving
access
to
free
books.
Dapo Adeola
0:47
Author
visits
works.
100%
it
works.
Like
I
myself
did
not
understand
that
because
again,
only
seven
years
in
at
the
first
author
visit,
just
the
impact.
And
lookup
had
been
out
for
a
week
at
the
time.
Just
the
impact.
It
was
insane.
We
had
parents
coming
up
to
us,
parents
who
were
my
age,
and
they
were
like,
Where
were
you
guys
when
we
were
growing
up?
I
was
like,
I
was
in
school,
just
like
he
said.
They
were
like,
Oh
my
god,
I
wish
this
book
wasn't
around
when
I
was
growing
up.
I
had
somebody
message
me
that
this
morning,
you
know.
So
it's
just
a
huge
impact,
especially
when
it
comes
to
books
from
diverse
authors
and
illustrators.
How
many
times
do
we
get
a
Pakistani
author
visiting
talking
about
their
mythological
book
series?
We
don't
get
that.
That's
not
a
normal
thing.
It
will
go
a
long
way
towards
firing
that
curiosity
from
children
and
engaging
them
and
uh
encouraging
them
to
read
for
pleasure.
If
schools
were
funded
appropriately
so
they
could
afford
to
pay
us
to
come
in
properly,
that
would
go
a
long
way.
Also,
stop
closing
libraries,
stop
underfunding
them.
We're
talking
about
access.
Books
don't
have
to
be
bought
when
they
can
be
borrowed,
you
know,
and
they
can
be
borrowed
for
free
at
no
cost.
Like,
stop
closing
libraries.
Community
centers,
youth
clubs,
all
places
where
book
clubs
can
exist
as
well,
are
also
underfunded
and
closed.
Stop
doing
that.
Like,
just
stop
doing
that.
If
you
stop
doing
that
and
stop
taking
money
from
that,
you
wouldn't
have
to
create
initiatives
like
the
one
that
we're
seeing.
And
that's
not
to
bash
the
initiative.
I'm
here
for
it,
it's
a
great
thing.
However,
I
don't
understand
how
you
can
create
your
own
problem
and
then
come
up
with
an
initiative
to
solve
a
problem
that
didn't
need
to
exist
in
the
first
place.
It
just
is
a
lot
of
going
around
in
circles.
Katy
2:34
Author
Tom
Palmer
discusses
the
importance
of
book
gifting
schemes,
such
as
book
buzz
and
bookstart,
and
how
valuable
it
is
to
get
parents
and
grandparents
involved
in
their
children's
reading
and
the
role
that
libraries,
literary
festivals,
and
schools
have
creating
shared
opportunities
to
talk
to
different
age
groups.
Tom Palmer
2:50
I
think
giving
a
book
to
a
child
like
so
that
they
get
a
choice,
they
think
year
sevens
get
given
a
book,
book
buzz.
I
think
stuff
like
that's
really
good.
And
then
the
thing
to
do
with
Shore
Start
and
Reading,
where
like
families
got
a
book
that
was
age
appropriate
to
read
with
your
child,
and
there
was
notes
on
how
to
do
it.
Like
we
got
that
when
my
daughter
was
born.
A
lot
of
people
are
not
confident
around
books,
a
lot
of
adults
and
parents,
and
it
gave
you
advice
about
how
to
read
with
your
child,
and
those
sorts
of
interventions
were
amazing.
And
I
thought
that
was
really
effective
as
a
dad,
but
also
seeing
that
in
the
world
when
I
was
working
in
reader
development
around
that
period
before
it
got
published.
If
you
invest
that
money
into
those,
it
will
have
a
massive
impact
on
everything
in
what
books
do
for
us,
like
nationally,
economically,
family,
cohesion,
happiness,
all
the
things
that
get
quoted
about
what
books
can
do
for
you.
Those
things,
they're
like
the
foundation
stones
for
all
that
sort
of
stuff.
I
think
in
schools,
definitely
when
I
started
going
into
schools
20-ish
years
ago,
reading
for
pleasure
wasn't
on
the
agenda
and
it
is
now
part
of
the
curriculum.
And
I
think
that's
brilliant.
The
way
schools
read
whole
books
now,
children
love
it.
They
get
really
excited
telling
me
about
the
books
they're
reading
as
a
class
read.
Twenty
years
ago,
it
was
it
seemed
to
me
schools
were
reading
excerpts
from
books
and
they
were
analysing
the
text
to
death.
There
was
no
joy,
there
was
no
story,
there
was
no
cliffhanger
for
the
next
day.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
really
good
stuff
as
well.
And
government
can
do
it
through
those
sorts
of
schemes,
and
I
think
it's
really
important
to
recognise
that.
And
they
can
support
organisations
like
the
Reading
Agency,
the
Book
Trust,
Literacy
Trust,
etc.
And
there's
so
many
people
out
there
like
us,
like
you
and
me
talking
now,
and
all
the
other
people
you've
interviewed
on
this
podcast.
There's
so
many
people
who
are
willing
to
do
it
as
part
of
their
job,
but
also
do
it
as
part
of
their
love
of
reading
and
wanting
to
encourage
children
to
read.
There's
so
many
others
out
there
that
can
keep
this
going
if
we
get
backed
up
with
things
like
school
librarians,
etc.
Another
reading
scheme,
which
was
similar
to
Bookstart,
was
a
really
good
one
that
I
was
involved
with
for
years
was
Premier
League
reading
stars.
And
it
was
amazing
in
that
it
was
funded
by
an
external
body,
the
Premier
League,
and
it's
changed
now,
it's
different
now.
But
in
its
first
five
to
ten
years,
it
was
about
setting
up
reading
groups
in
public
libraries
where
a
child
and
one
of
their
adults
would
come
to
the
reading
group
and
they'd
talk
about
reading
and
books
together.
And
it
was
as
much
aimed
at
the
adult
of
the
child
to
sort
of
model
how
to
get
your
child
into
reading.
And
it
was
quite
in
intensive.
You'd
have
10
child
adult
meetings
six
to
ten
times
over
a
period,
and
then
there'd
be
a
football
element
to
it.
And
it
was
it
was
doing
that
thing
that
if
you
are
not
confident
about
reading
with
your
child,
it
was
kind
of
modelling
the
things
you
could
do.
So
it
was
teaching
them
in
situ.
And
I
sometimes
I
get
invited
into
schools
and
they
have
an
evening
session,
they're
like
an
after
school
session,
where
I
go
in
and
do
a
talk
to
the
children,
but
the
adults
are
asked
to
come
along
as
well.
Um,
and
we
talk
about
like
reading
problems
and
how
to
encourage
a
child
to
read
and
modelling
good
ideas.
And
I
talk
about
my
mum
and
now
she
got
me
reading
football
magazines
and
football
newspapers,
and
so
that
those
sorts
of
things,
but
they're
so
expensive,
and
also
it's
getting
the
adults
in,
isn't
it?
I've
done
some
stuff
with
Cotton
and
Hay
Junior
School
in
Derbyshire,
and
like
every
now
and
then
we'll
get
a
couple
of
dozen
parents
or
more
in
with
to
come
in
with
the
children,
and
we'll
get
a
football-y
sort
of
person
in
and
we'll
talk
about
reading
together
and
how
adults
with
children
can
help
encourage
their
children
to
enjoy
reading.
And
th
there
are
schemes,
but
they're
really
expensive,
so
it's
money,
isn't
it?
It's
money
and
the
will
to
do
it.
There's
enough
people
out
there
who
want
to
do
it,
it's
just
giving
us
the
money
and
the
time
to
do
it,
isn't
it?
I
did
an
event
in
a
library
in
Cumbria,
and
we
had
about
10,
12
children
and
12,
15
adults.
And
it
was
aimed
at
the
children,
the
adults
were
just
there
to
watch.
But
we
as
much
aimed
it
as
at
the
adults
as
we
did
the
children.
And
so
libraries,
public
libraries
are
a
really
good
place
to
get
children
and
adults
in
together
to
model.
And
they
need
an
incentive,
not
just
come
to
see
some
author,
but
like
there's
bigger
incentives.
And
I
think
the
other
people
who
are
in
a
position,
when
I
get
in
an
audience,
when
I
get
to
see
children
with
their
parents,
it's
book
festivals.
So
book
festivals
are
the
other
place
where
you
have
a
mixed
audience
of
adults
and
children.
If
it's
a
public
event,
people
who
are
already
want
to
encourage
their
children
to
read
and
want
them
to
see
an
author
and
be
inspired
by
them.
Book
festivals
are
in
a
position
to
do
that
sort
of
work,
like
libraries
are,
and
perhaps
money
could
be
channelled
to
them
to
do
work
where
it's
not
about
ticket
sales,
but
it's
about
getting
a
hundred
kids
and
a
hundred
parents
or
grandparents
in
together
and
being
exposed
to
that
whole
passion
for
and
excitement
about
reading
together.
Because
that
they're
the
two
channels
where
I
talk
to
adults
and
children
together,
and
it's
wonderful,
it's
different
to
doing
a
school
event,
and
the
parents
really
get
into
it,
and
you
can
see
them
seeing
their
children's
excitement
at
meeting
authors.
Book
festivals
and
public
libraries
are
two
good
forums
for
that.
Katy
8:07
Author
Louie
Stowell
talks
about
examples
of
where
engagement
has
been
really
successful
and
the
importance
of
space
and
community,
starting
with
a
comic,
the
phoenix.
Louie Stowell
8:15
Well,
clearly
the
phoenix.
That's
a
really
interesting
one
because
it's
not
just
about
kids
loving
the
comic,
it's
also
a
community.
And
I
think
if
you
can
create
communities
around
reading,
that's
really
important.
I
know
Harper
Collins
did
a
study
recently
where
they
created
community
libraries
in
schools,
or
no,
like
places
where
the
kids
could
go
and
read
that
had
nice
soft
furnishings
and
the
kids
got
to
pick
the
books.
So
there's
that
sense
of
both
creating
spaces
for
reading
and
giving
kids
agency
about
what
they
read.
And
again,
with
the
Phoenix,
you've
got
so
many
different
strips
that
you
always
have
choice,
and
that
that
choice
is
really
powerful,
and
kids
being
allowed
to
be
part
of
the
choice
of
books,
I
think,
is
really
valuable.
Whether
it's
in
schools
or
whether
it's
parents
just
letting
their
kids
pick
what
they
want
to
read.
And
obviously,
as
libraries
close,
that
becomes
less
and
less
possible.
I
do
think
access
is
a
real
problem
and
book
deserts
and
just
not
having
that
selection
available.
And
I
don't
know
what
the
solution
to
that
is
because
obviously
that's
an
infrastructure
problem,
but
it
is
definitely
a
problem.
Katy
9:14
Louie
also
highlights
how
communities
of
readers
can
develop
online
and
the
importance
of
adults
modelling
reading
for
children
and
young
people.
Louie Stowell
9:21
I
think
what
works
about
TikTok
is
it's
a
fandom.
And
again,
it's
going
back
to
community.
And
how
do
you
create
fandoms
and
how
do
you
create
spaces
where
those
fandoms
can
happen?
And
that's
much
harder
with
children,
obviously,
because
they
shouldn't
be
on
the
wide
worldwide
internet
too
much.
But
if
there
are
created
spaces
online,
there's
no
space
without
problems,
but
some
sort
of
online
game
or
something.
Is
that
is
there
a
space
for
having
a
kind
of
book
corner
within
that?
But
also
I
think
it's
encouraging
adults
to
talk
about
books
because
there's
probably
people
who
are
reading
who
are
not
then
talking
about
it
with
their
kids.
And
how
do
you
get
that
conversation
going?
And
I
think
some
of
it
could
be
modelling
it.
And
I
mean,
one
of
the
kind
of
shocking
things
in
the
stats
was
how
little
parents
enjoy
reading
to
their
kids.
That
really
made
me
quite
sad.
And
I
think
if
there's
ways
of
kind
of
showing
that
in
media,
showing
modelling
sounds
very
dry,
but
I
mean
it's
literally
showing
someone
reading
a
book
to
a
child
and
showing
it
being
fun.
And
more,
you
know,
whatever
Jack
and
Ori,
that
kind
of
thing.
A
lot
of
people
aren't
watching
live
TV
anyway,
or
or
even
traditional
media,
and
it's
how
you
do
that
through
other
channels.
Katy
10:20
Jenny
Hawke,
chair
of
the
Youth
Libraries
Group
and
a
librarian
in
Bromley,
talks
about
what
libraries
offer
families
and
young
people.
She
also
emphasises
the
importance
of
collaboration
between
public
libraries
and
schools,
and
that
when
done
well,
it
leads
to
family
reading
and
everyone
using
the
library.
Jenny Hawke
10:36
In
the
public
library,
we
do
have
a
lot
of
children.
They
are
coming
in,
they're
coming
in
on
a
semi-regular
basis.
Sometimes
we
get
the
same
children
coming
in
every
week,
and
obviously,
we
have
chatterbooks
groups
as
well.
So
the
eight
to
eleven-year-olds
have
just
had
a
chatterbooks
group
today,
in
fact.
And
they
were
so
excited,
and
they
were
doing
this
quiz,
and
they
were
so
sort
of
competitive
and
really
wanted
to
get
the
answers.
We
had
all
the
books
all
over
the
table,
and
so
from
that
side
of
things,
I
can
see
that
they're
actually
like
really
into
reading.
Some
of
them
had
done
reviews
of
the
books
that
they
took
at
home
last
time,
last
month,
and
some
of
them
hadn't,
but
they
were
still
chatting
about
the
books
and
talking.
The
volume
does
get
like
really
loud
at
some
points.
But
then
obviously,
I
do
know
from
the
national
picture
and
the
National
Literacy
Trust's
latest
report
on
reading
for
pleasure,
and
that
there
has
been
a
decline.
And
I
suppose
our
role
in
the
public
libraries,
particularly,
because
that's
where
my
experience
is,
but
I'm
sure
also
in
the
school
library
is
just
to
try
and
reignite
some
of
that
passion
for
reading,
and
that's
what
we
try
and
do,
and
we
look
at
the
different
factors
like
their
access
to
books,
and
I
suppose
the
children
that
are
coming
into
the
library
are
coming
in
because
the
parents
are
bringing
them
into
the
library,
their
carers
are
bringing
them
into
the
library,
and
then
I
had
a
class
visit
coming
in.
Now
that's
slightly
different
because
the
school
is
bringing
them
in.
But
what's
really
lovely
is
we
definitely
noticed
that
link
with
the
school
and
public
libraries
is
so
important
because
you
know
that
is
where
we
are
reaching
those
children
that
might
not
actually
come
in
with
their
parents,
but
they're
coming
in
with
the
schools,
and
so
often
we
will
notice,
like
maybe
even
that
evening
or
at
the
weekend
on
a
Saturday,
if
they
have
had
a
session
in
the
library
with
a
member
of
staff,
then
they
will
come
back
with
their
parents,
which
is
really
lovely.
And
we
always
make
sure
they
get
the
colouring
letter
saying,
Oh,
we
went
to
the
library
today,
we
visited
the
library,
and
it's
very
easy
to
join
your
child
up
to
the
library.
So
that's
really
important
to
give
them
that,
to
give
them
a
bookmark
and
just
give
them
a
really
good
experience
in
the
library
so
that
they
they
will
come
back
again.
Saturday
mornings
are
really
peak
times
when
families
are
coming
in
and
we
have
this
sorter
where
all
the
books
are
getting
returned
through
the
self-service.
And
so
sometimes
I
take
a
photo
of
it
because
I
just
think,
wow,
you
know,
we
are
absolutely
run
off
our
feet,
but
this
is
amazing
that
all
these
kids
are
returning
all
these
books.
So
I
think
the
space
is
really
important,
and
I
think
that's
important
for
the
school
libraries
as
well,
for
a
place
to
go
and
for
there
to
be
somebody
there,
a
trained
person
who
can
chat
to
them
about
what
books
they
want
to
borrow.
And
it's
always
important
that
we
always
say
there's
always
members
of
staff
so
you
can
come
and
talk
to
them.
I
think
forging
links
between
public
libraries
and
schools
is
really
paramount.
And
we're
taking
the
authors
into
the
library
and
then
inviting
the
schools
to
come
into
the
library,
but
we're
also
doing
online
events
with
schools
and
with
our
authors.
In
our
particular
authority,
we're
quite
lucky
in
that
we
have
a
secondary
school
librarian
network.
So
we
get
invited
to
their
meetings,
and
we
always
make
sure
that
we
organise
something
for
them
every
term.
So
for
the
secondary
schools,
we
organize
a
fully
booked
quiz.
The
school
librarians
bring
about
seven
or
eight
year
sevens
or
year
eights,
and
we
have
about
eight
or
nine
secondary
schools
taking
part,
and
they
absolutely
love
it,
and
they
are
so
competitive.
Making
connections
and
working
collectively
with
other
organisations.
For
example,
we're
part
of
the
Spine
Festival,
so
normally
it's
an
annual
festival
where
16
boroughs
all
get
together,
it's
a
creative
arts
festival,
and
it's
organized
by
Apples
and
Snakes,
the
spoken
word
organization.
And
we
have
all
these
events
and
activities,
some
of
them
are
school,
some
of
them
are
public,
but
you
really
feel
part
of
something,
and
I
think
a
lot
of
those
events
have
definitely
had
an
impact,
and
there's
usually
always
some
sort
of
performance
at
the
end
where
the
parents
all
come.
And
I
remember
once
we
had
this
end
performance,
and
then
all
the
parents
joined
the
library,
the
siblings
joined
the
library.
So
I
think
definitely
working
collectively
with
other
organisations
really
helped.
And
sometimes
those
can
just
be
like
local
organisations,
like
a
local
arts
society
once
said,
right,
we've
got
some
money,
we
want
it
to
be
spent
on
a
creative
arts
project
for
the
library.
Can
you
help
us?
So
we
thought,
oh,
it
would
be
wonderful
to
have
a
mural
in
the
library,
and
then
we've
got
some
children
from
the
local
primary
school
from
years
five
and
six.
Loretta
Schauer
actually
came
and
she
helped
the
children
to
design
this
mural.
So
I
think
all
those
things,
however
local
or
regional
or
national,
because
we
always
try
in
the
public
libraries
to
promote
like
National
Nonfiction
November
and
National
Share
a
Story
Month
and
Book
Trust
initiatives
as
well.
So
I
think
working
collaboratively
is
key.
Katy
17:24
Finally,
we
hear
from
author
Sita
Brahmachari
advocating
a
movement
that
puts
reading
at
the
heart
of
every
childhood.
Sita Brahmachari
17:31
Leadership
is
absolutely
vital.
So
it
needs
to
come
from
the
top
of
every
school.
It
needs
to
take
all
of
these
agencies
in
connection
with
the
head
teachers
of
every
school
in
the
country,
either
through
some
kind
of
enormous
coming-togethers
of
people
in
theaters
or
whatever,
big
spaces.
It's
a
movement.
You
need
to
ignite
it.
So
we
need
to
make
reading
at
the
heart
of
every
childhood.
That
means
from
preschool,
as
Frank
Cultural
Voice
is
doing,
to
18
and
then
beyond
into
higher
education.
Reading
is
the
hearth
of
education.
It
is
the
place
around
which
everything
gathers.
To
explore
anything
within
school,
you
need
to
read.
And
you
cannot
go
forward.
You
cannot
thrive.
You
will
be
hungry
all
your
life.
Physically,
probably
as
well.
One
in
three
children
in
our
schools
is
hungry.
So
when
they
leave
school
and
their
literacy
rates
are
so
low,
they
probably
will
also
be
hungry
in
their
emotional
well-being
and
their
ability
to
imagine
different
futures
and
create
different
futures
for
themselves.
There
is,
in
my
opinion,
a
crisis
of
creativity
within
the
education
system.
And
that
crisis
of
creativity
is
stifling
our
young
people.
And
many
of
my
stories
have
been
made,
books
on
prescription,
by
reading
agencies
about
they
can
help
young
people
with
their
well-being.
And
I'm
very
proud
of
that.
My
dad
was
a
doctor,
he
would
have
thought
that
was
really
quite
strange.
But
actually,
he
wasn't
a
doctor
that
was
wanting
to
prescribe
people
lots
of
pills.
He
actually
was
someone
that
said,
Well,
maybe
if
you're
feeling
stressed,
walk
in
nature
a
little
bit.
So
I
think
we
need
to
refocus,
as
with
Shore
Start,
a
future
for
every
child,
the
well-being
of
every
child
to
thrive,
and
that
reading
is
absolutely
at
the
heart
of
it
all.
The
scale
that
we
need
needs
to
be
that
all
of
the
amazing
educators,
the
librarians,
all
of
the
amazing
people
in
the
book
agencies,
we
need
to
come
together
and
in
unity,
and
we
need
to
say,
right,
this
needs
to
change.
Which
means
that
it
goes
through
teacher
training,
which
means
if
I
want
to
be
a
teacher,
I
need
to
have
this
vision
of
stimulating
the
whole
of
the
creative
child,
making
sure
that
they
and
their
families,
their
guardians
have
the
opportunity
to
thrive.
I
mean,
I
call
it
reading
to
thrive.
It's
not
just
to
survive,
it's
not
just
to
pass
the
test,
it's
to
thrive.
And
as
you
go
through
life,
you're
going
to
face
difficulties,
you're
going
to
have
challenges.
Reading
has
been
my
absolute
anchor
and
my
absolute
sale
in
my
life.
And
writing
is
absolutely
connected
to
that.
I
think
that
also
the
stats
around
creative
writing
and
the
enjoyment
in
creative
writing
have
gone
down.
For
myself,
I
have
my
patchwork
storytelling
quilt.
And
when
I
go
and
speak
to
children
in
schools,
I
say,
okay,
we're
going
to
talk,
you're
going
to
doodle
listen
for
a
while.
Children
that
maybe
find
it
hard
to
kind
of
concentrate
for
large,
long
times.
They're
doodling,
they're
drawing
pictures
and
symbols
of
what
you're
talking
about,
little
memories
of
what
you've
said,
they're
writing
it
all
down,
and
they
have
a
patchwork
piece.
Why
can't
we
go
through
the
whole
of
a
school
day
collecting
inspirational
patchwork
pieces
and
writing
them
down
and
having
a
little
quilt
at
the
end
of
the
day
that
you
can
go
back
and
share
with
your
family?
This
is
not
like
a
bespoke
project
that
only
privileged
children
can
do.
I
work
in
all
schools,
but
I
think
it's
very,
very
interesting
that
fee-paying
schools
really
prioritize
the
humanities
and
the
arts.
So
that
you
will
go
to
schools
which
will
have
wonderful
theatres.
You
will
go
to
schools
that
think
art
is
an
really
important
part
of
the
school
day
for
the
children,
and
sports,
and
the
whole
child.
So
I
think
we
need
to
really
throw
up
in
the
air
what
we
have
been
doing.
The
world
has
changed,
our
worlds
have
changed,
and
we
need
to
step
up
altogether.
And
we
need
to
look
at
what
children
and
what
childhood
needs
now.
So
it's
a
very
hopeful
thing
is
that
we
now
have
a
policy
by
the
end
of
the
term.
Of
this
government
of
a
library
in
every
primary
school.
But
a
library
without,
with
the
pressures
of
things
still
carrying
on,
a
library
without
a
creative
approach
is
a
room
with
books
in
it.
So
how
do
we
bring
the
children
that
haven't
had
a
book
at
home,
which
is
many
children,
haven't
had
a
culture
in
their
families
of
reading?
How
do
we
get
those
children
to
make
that
library
the
hearth
of
their
education?
You
do
that
by
bringing
in
every
generation
to
activities,
to
creative
things
where
perhaps
adults
who
might
not
have
high
literary
race
themselves,
they
understand
that
they
belong
in
that
place.
You
know,
reading
is
a
place
of
belonging.
Reading
is
a
home.
And
you
see
this
sometimes
with
refugee
children,
and
what
they
bring
is
they
have
a
book
on
their
back.
They
bring
a
book
from
home.
Sometimes
that
can
be
the
place
where
they
have
a
home
when
they
don't
have
a
home
outside
it.
So
we
need
to
make
the
library
in
every
primary
school
a
hearth
and
a
home
to
the
community
so
that
it's
the
place,
not
just
the
children
who
might
be
ahead
with
reading,
or
maybe
the
children
who
need
to
find
a
place
of
harm
and
comfort
within
a
very
noisy
space.
Not
only
those
children,
but
every
child
needs
to
know
what
that
library
can
do
for
them.
But
if
those
libraries
don't
yet
have
librarians,
that
means
every
teacher
needs
to
be
demonstrating
and
using
that
library
at
the
core
of
their
work.
And
obviously,
I
do
believe
that
there
needs
to
be
a
librarian
in
every
primary
school
to
be
with
those
books
to
help
properly
expand
what
the
impact
on
creativity
in
education
can
be.
And
I
think
that
that
needs
to
go
across
the
board
into
secondary
school
too.
And
you
need
to
keep
injecting
new
inspirations.
We
need
to
be
looking
at
what
things
really
are
working
and
then
bringing
a
new
inspiration.
So
children
who
are
in
a
school
and
young
adults
in
a
secondary
school
can
feel
this
sort
of
kinetic
energy
behind
the
force
that
reading
has
in
their
lives.
And
it
doesn't
stop,
it
just
keeps
on
rolling.
So
that
when
you
enter
a
school,
preschool,
nursery,
you
feel
it.
And
by
the
time
you're
leaving
the
school,
you
feel
it.
It
doesn't
drop
off
in
year
eight
when
you're
too
busy
because
you're
doing
your
A-levels
or
GCSEs
or
whatever.
We
know
that
this
is
what
education
is,
we
know
that
this
is
what
a
lifelong
opportunity
is,
we
know
that
this
is
what
awe
and
wonder
is
and
imagination
is.
And
this
is
a
path
which
will
help
you
to
grow
in
empathy
through
your
life
and
to
discover
things
that
you
never
thought
you
would
discover.
Katy
24:54
So
lots
of
ideas
there
about
how
we
can
all
support
reading
for
pleasure.
Ali
24:58
Yeah,
it's
important,
and
particularly
in
the
national
year
of
reading,
to
think
about
the
role
that
everyone's
got
to
play
in
encouraging
reading
for
pleasure.
Katy
25:06
Yeah,
it's
all
too
easy
to
just
leave
it
to
schools
or
leave
it
to
parents.
But
I
think
what
all
of
our
interviewees
have
made
clear
is
that
actually
it
is
about
having
approaches
that
involve
everybody.
If
it's
in
school,
it's
not
just
in
English
lessons,
it's
not
just
the
library's
problem.
It's
something
that
everyone
should
be
involved
in.
And
the
importance
of
getting
parents
involved
and
the
importance
of
access
to
books
and
libraries.
So
in
the
next
episode,
we
have
asked
people
what
if
they
could
do
one
thing,
what
would
it
be?
Ali
25:36
And
we'd
love
to
hear
from
you.
We've
been
discussing
all
the
different
things
around
reading
for
pleasure
and
how
we've
got
to
this
place
where
we
need
a
national
year
of
reading
again.
So
we'd
love
to
hear
what
your
thoughts
are.
And
if
you
could
do
one
thing,
what
would
that
be?
Yo
Ali
25:51
u
can
us
at
info at mostlybooktalk.com
or
you
can
engage
with
us
on
the
socials
at
mostlybooktalk.
So
join
us
for
part
six
of
our
five-part
series.
Katy
26:02
Yes,
it's
a
good
thing
we're
not
doing
a
math
series.